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1

Donnerstag, 7. September 2017, 13:51

Need info about battery replacement et9500

Hi there,

I have an et9500 that needs a battery replacement. i measure 1.5V
i red some info about this subject in several posts, but it's not clear to me when the box takes over the power supply of the battery.
does the box need to be: powered on, in stand-by, or in deep-sleep ?
does anyone have personal experience with replacing a battery of a et9500 (et9x00) box ?

my first idea was to solder a temporary battery parallel on the original battery, replace the original battery, and disconnecting the temporary battery.
but if it can be done without a temporary battery, it would be easier.

grt Smokey

2

Donnerstag, 7. September 2017, 14:43

As far as I know, it's ok if the box is in Deep Standby when you change the battery. But be careful! High voltage!

3

Donnerstag, 7. September 2017, 15:49

I will go for the 'temporary battery' solution.

i just did some tests, and the sec board can not be powered in Deep Standby.
i checked the voltage (drop) over the battery in the different power states.

Power on: 1.92V
Standby: 1.91V
Deep Standby: 1.2V
Power off: 1.2V (power switch)

if you look at the sec board (removed cover, seen from the front side of the box) there are two connectors with a cable at the right side. (i can not make a foto right now, sorry)
connector j2 goes to the main pcb, and j3 goes to the front usb pcb.

the connector j2 has 5 wires, and one of the wires has a black stripe. this is wire/pin 1 in this test.

pin 1: power 5V
pin 2: data ?
pin 3: data ?
pin 4: ground
pin 5: power 5V

Power on: pin 1 and pin 5 : 5V
Standby: pin 1 and pin 5 : 5V
Deep Standby: pin 1 and pin 5 : 0V

so it looks like the sec board is not powered in Deep Standby

grt Smokey

4

Donnerstag, 7. September 2017, 17:06

Found this: Frage zur Problematik Stützbatterie

But I think the way with the temporary battery is much secure.

5

Donnerstag, 7. September 2017, 23:37

I will make some foto's of the procedure, and post them.

i got the idea for building a 'watch-dog' circuit to guard the battery voltage.
it can be done with a comparator chip, in the same way as a battery charger guards the voltage of a battery.
but instead of charging, a warning led starts to blink, if the voltage of the battery gets under 2 Volt

but that's for later, first i want to replace the battery of the et9500.

grt Smokey

6

Sonntag, 10. September 2017, 13:18

The job is done, and the box starts up like it always did. :D

-picture 1 shows the Sec. Board from above, and i added some markings that belong to post #3

-in picture 2 you can see the places where i removed the paint from the circuitboard, to make solder points for
the temporary battery. i also added a few markings, to show that the ground (-) is very close to positive (+) contact
of the battery, also at the place i removed the paint for the positive solder point.
that means you have to be very careful if you use a metal tool to remove the paint. if you make contact between
the parts that are marked with + and - ,then it's all over !!!!!
especially be careful with the points that are marked with a yellow arrow. these parts are not covered with paint.

-picture 3 and 4 are a close up of the places where the paint is removed.

-picture 5 shows the finished solder points.

-picture 6 shows a temporary battery/power-supply i prepaird.

-picture 7 shows the wires of the temporary power-supply are solderd to the Sec. Board.
after that i put 2 AAA batteries in the holder (when the box was turned on, i will explain later why i did that).

-picture 8 shows the removed Sec. Board with the attached power-supply.

-picture 9 shows an extra safety (i made a hole in the bottom of the bag for the wires) to prevent accidental contact with the Sec. Board
the chances are small that it happens, because the wires between the temporary power-supply and the Sec. Board are about 30cm long.
but it's better to be prepaird for unexpected events.

-picture 10 shows the bottom side of the Sec. Board, where the battery is attached.
the part that is marked with + can also be used to make a solder point for the temporary power-supply, but that's also
close to the solder point of the battery, so i prefere to make the solder points at the top side of the Sec. Board.

-picture 11 shows the original battery and the battery i used as a replacement. the battery types are not identical.
the reason for that is that the picture of the batteries that i ordered looked the same as the original type (2 legs).
but for some reason i received an other type (3 legs), and because i didn't want to wait, i used the type that i received.

-picture 12 and 13 show the modification i made with a small piece of Heat Shrink Tubing, to create some insulation around the edge of the battery.
after that, i soldered the new battery on the Sec. Board, and removed the AAA batteries from the batterie holder.

-picture 14 shows the new battery fixed to the Sec. Board.
the blue line is a cutting edge. when only the leg removed, the original edge was resting on the ground part (-) of the Sec. Board,
so i had to cut away a small piece of the positive contact-strip of the battery.
because of the insulation around the edge of the battery, the (blue) edge can not make contact with the ground anymore.
my advise: get a battery of the original type (2 legs).

-picture 15 shows the Sec. Board back in the box, and the wires of the temporary power-supply removed.


Some more info:
The battery on the Sec. Board is a non rechargeable type, and it's not a good idea to charge it.
when the AAA batteries are placed in the holder of the temporary power-supply, this is exactly what happens.
because the voltage of the battery on the Sec. Board is lower, an electric current will flow from the temporary power-supply to the battery on the Sec. Board,
and it will damage the battery on the Sec. Board.
that is why i placed the AAA batteries in the holder when the box was turned on. in my test result in post #3, it looks like the box is supplying the Sec. Board when
it is turned on, or in stand-by. and i didn't know what would happen with the battery on the Sec. Board, when the temporary power-supply became active.
and if the box is supplying the Sec. Board, i figured it would be safer that way.
the time between activating the temporary power-supply and removing the old battery from the Sec. Board was a little bit more than a minute.
the rest of the work took about 5 minutes (including the modifications of the new battery). after that i measured the power of the old battery, and it had droped to 0.4V
this is the result of an old/bad battery and the charging effect of the temporary power-supply.
the new battery has about the same voltage as the temporary power-supply, so it will not get damaged. and a small difference in voltage (0.2V) is not a problem,
and it takes about 30 seconds to solder the new battery on the Sec. Board and removing the AAA batteries from the temporary power-supply.

I wrote before that it looks like the Sec. Board of the et9500 is powered by the box when it is turned on, and in stand-by.
this might be different with other xtrend models, and it would be interesting to know that.
i have an et9200, et8000 and an et10000. i will test the voltage drop of the battery in different power states, with these types too.
so, if you have an other xtrend model and you do this test, place your results on the forum.

grt Smokey
»Smokey« hat folgende Dateien angehängt:
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  • pic_7-9.jpg (677,79 kB - 29 mal heruntergeladen - zuletzt: 2. Januar 2018, 19:10)
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  • pic_13-15.jpg (797,35 kB - 30 mal heruntergeladen - zuletzt: 16. Januar 2018, 17:10)

7

Sonntag, 10. September 2017, 17:25

Good job! :thumbup:
Thanks for the detail informations.

8

Sonntag, 10. September 2017, 17:48

@Smokey

How about a holder like this: https://www.conrad.de/de/knopfzellenhalt…106-650612.html ?
So, next time you can change the battery without the temporary battery and box in standby?

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von »edcrane« (10. September 2017, 19:08) aus folgendem Grund: Typo


9

Sonntag, 10. September 2017, 19:59

HI ed,

a battery holder looks like a good idea, but in that case there should be 2 battery holders on the sec board.
in that case you put 1 battery in one of the holders, and when it needs to be replaced, you just put a new battery in the empty holder, and remove the old battery from the other holder.
but where to mount them ? both on top, or one on top and one at the bottom side of the Sec. Board ?
or did you mean to use 1 battery holder as temporary power-supply ? in that case i could also build a battery holder for 2 AAA batteries in every box. i have to use my temporary power-supply anyway to remove the Original battery, and mount the cr2032 battery holder(s).
the type of battery holder from the link you posted is not the best choise, because the battery can fall out when the box accidently should fall on the floor. (during cleaning the house or during transport or while your woking on the Sec. Board)
the et9000 has a battery holder on the Sec. Board that will prevent that, and to secure the battery of loosing contact (if the box shoul fall to the floor) there is a drop of hot-glue on top of the battery and the top contact of the battery holder.
take a look at this one: http://batteryholders.com/part.php?pn=BH…override=CR2032

battery holders are not Always reliable, because the contacts of the battery holder Always oxydize.
that is the reason the later xtrend models don't have a battery holder on the Sec. Board anymore.

the solution with two battery holders could be a good idea if you use the most reliable battery holders you can find, check/replace the battery every 2 years.
and ALWAYS clean the contacts of the battery holder BEFORE you put in the new battery.

about changing the battery during standby: my test shows that in LOOKS like the box is taking over the power supply from the battery.
sofar it's not proven to me that it is safe to replace the battery during standby, and i'm not going to test it with my boxes. ;)

grt Smokey

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von »Smokey« (10. September 2017, 20:09)


10

Sonntag, 10. September 2017, 20:38

Hi Smokey,

can't find the post, but i'm sure, that i have read about changing the battery while the box is in standby.
The description of the holder says the battery sits securely in the holder. Of course you should test it, before you use it. So i thought once you changed the battery by using a temporary battery, next time you don't need the temporary battery, while the box is in standby.

Anyway, your box is still alive! ;)

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von »edcrane« (10. September 2017, 20:51)


11

Montag, 11. September 2017, 12:57

Hi ed,

i see what you mean now, and yes, that would be a good solution.
that way it is also possible to take out the battery and test it with a battery-tester instead of a volt-meter.
a battery-tester gives a good indication about the condition of the battery, and a volt-meter can't do that.
a volt-meter is only usefull in this test to measure the voltage drop over the battery in the different power-states of the box.
this also gives some indication about the condition of the battery, but a battery-tester is better.
and using a battery tester instead of a volt-meter to test the battery when it is still on the Sec. Board is not a good idea.

about the post you can't find: i have been searching for the same posting, i'm sure i saw the same post a couple of months ago.
and i was hoping that the author of that info would read this (and reply), or someone else that knows where to find the info. thank you for trying to find it too.
or we need someone who want's do the test with his box.

the et9500 that i fixed, is not my own box. it belongs to a friend.
i got the box here to install new software. it was running on an xtrendalliance image from 2013.
i fixed several xtrend boxes with (standard) power-supply problems. (bad capacitors)
so, every time someone brings over an xtrend box, i always check the power-supply and i measure the voltage of the battery on the Sec. Board, even if the box is here for software problems/solutions.
i bought my first xtrend box (et9000) in 2012. i don't have it anymore (i gave it away), but it has been back here a couple of times for hardware/software issues.
so i was very supprised that the battery of the et9000 is in a better condition than the et9500 from 2013.

to choose the best battery-holder, i would order different types of battery-holders to check them out, and use the best one.
i have more trust in my own experience, than the info or a picture on a website. the batteries that i received were different than the picture on the website. (Conrad)

grt Smokey

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von »Smokey« (11. September 2017, 18:08)


12

Montag, 11. September 2017, 20:49

this is the post i was looking for, but i'll keep using a temporary power-supply until more people can cofirm that the method in this post works.

here is the link: Das Problem mit der Batterie

13

Dienstag, 12. September 2017, 11:12

Yes, you are right that's the post. But i'm with you, i think the user "pfosten" is not very reliable. ;)

14

Dienstag, 12. September 2017, 16:00

Hi again,

i have been doing a few more experiments.
the first problem i had with my first xtrend box (et9000) was loosing the +5 Volt of the usb-connections.
thats how i discovered that pin 1 of connector J2 supplies the +5 Volt for the front usb-connection.
starting up the box was no problem, so that means that the +5 Volt on pin 1 of connector J2 is not used to supply the Sec. Board.
as a temporary solution to make the front usb-connection work, i connected an extra wire from pin 1 J2 on the Sec. Board, to pin 1 of connector J1 on the main board.

that means that the +5 Volt on pin 5 of connector J2, is used to supply the Sec. Board.
and my earlier measurements on the battery, showed that the difference of the Sec Board with, or without power can be detected.

after testing the Voltage difference of the battery (with and without power) of my et9200, i disconnected the box, and put +5 Volt
on pin 5 of connector J2. and the voltage of the battery went up, just like when the power is on.
so, it looks like replacing a battery, or installing a battery-holder can be done a lot safer/easier.
IF the box takes over the power of the battery, then i can make a cabel with a connector for J2, and connect the other end to my temporary power-supply.
that way i don't have to remove the paint from the circuit board, to make solder points for the temporary power-supply.
or a long cable (1 meter) for between the sec. Board and the Main Board. that way i can take the Sec. Board out of the box to work on it.
the original cable is very short, and you have to turn the Sec. Board upside down to desolder the battery.
first of all there's the risk of disconnecting the cable, and the box has to be turned on. i prefere not to work in a box that is running.

the only thing that i/we need to know: is it safe to replace the battery when the Sec. Board is powered.
i already explained that i don't want to test this with my own boxes.
so, i have a request to everyone: if you have a working xtrend box, and you don't want/need it anymore, than i want to buy that box (for a reasonable price) for this experiment.
there's a chance i'm making the request on the wrong forum, i think most people on this forum like their xtrend box.

picture 'SecBoard' shows the Sec. Board with all the info i have about the connectors on the Sec. Board.
J2 is for power and communication with the main board.
J3 is for power and communication to the front USB-connection.
J4 is ??? i think it's a service connector to program the security-chip and/or bootloader.

picture 'USB-Info' shows some info about USB connections and connectors.

grt Smokey
»Smokey« hat folgende Dateien angehängt:
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  • USB-Info.png (274,65 kB - 24 mal heruntergeladen - zuletzt: 16. Januar 2018, 17:12)

15

Dienstag, 12. September 2017, 16:26

Hi Smokey,

that's too high for me. :) I think the right user to talk about this stuff is "Murphy-09". Take a look at his post about PowerSupply: PowerSupply :)

16

Dienstag, 12. September 2017, 16:57

Don't worry, if i get a box to do the experiment, and it works, i will make the cables and post foto's and info here.
i think most of the users here are interested in solutions, and a box that works, and not in electronics, or have any experience with that.
and i know the posts of @Murphy-09. thanks to his info and help, i was able to fix 2 power-supply problems on the main board.

17

Donnerstag, 14. September 2017, 19:04

Hi Smokey,

as you described, the connection from the main board to the sec board contains switched 5V for the USB and permanent 5V for the logic.
If the USB ports lost their power, it depends on a simple FET marked Q3 located directly behind the S/PDIF connector shown in the attached picture.
If there is an overload on the usb, this part, a NTR4101P, will be killed within a second.
I've changed the coin cell as well as I replace the cell against a battery holder upto now very often.
If the sec board is supplied via the mainboard or another supply, the battery can be unsoldered without any problem.
Both supplies, the coin as well as the external supply, are decoupled with diodes, so its not a problem, if the coin cell is shorted, during this procedure, as long as at least one supply is active.

Murphy-09 ;)
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18

Donnerstag, 14. September 2017, 21:31

Thanks Murphy-09, that's good news. :thumbsup:
that makes it a lot simpler to replace the battery for a battery holder.
and best of all: The battery of the xtrend boxes is not such a big worry anymore for xtrend owners, thanks to this info.

the problems with the usb power of the et9000 was in 2013.
i found info about this problem in the Italian section of the Xtrend Support Forum. (i'm happy that this forum is still alive)
when i started measuring the voltages of Q3, i disovered that one of the legs was loose.
after solering the leg, the problem was fixed.

maybe its time to make a 'Tips and Tricks' manual with technical info for xtrend owners. ;)

grt Smokey

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